Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. There are numerous ways to do this. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Will add it in. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. Step 7: Cut the Tile. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. I appreciate your help and your quick response. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. (3ft-3in wide). Kerdi Questions and Answers - Kennedy Kitchens & Baths We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. I still wet the walls first. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. Why you use cement board? It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. I trust it and have never had a callback. DensShield is one common brand. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. rev2023.3.3.43278. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). . I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. To line niche shelves, for instance. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. LONDON. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. KERDI BOARD: Waterproof Your Shower in 1 Day - Home Repair Tutor Yes. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Do you have any pictures? Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' You provide the pitch during the tile set. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. See the foam bench and the corners. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. Spacers are the next step. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. Some being easier to work with than others. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. . They are square. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. Any recommendations? It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. New England. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. Kerdi Vs. RedGard (Compared) - Build It Fine Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. . To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! We recommend our users to update the browser. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. The 30-in. Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . the cost of the tile job. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. Maybe try another brand of thinset? That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. What? This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. Jun 21, 2017. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Will use the Schluter Shower system. Kerdi-Board is an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with reinforcing material on both sides, covered by fleece webbing for effective anchoring of thin-set mortar. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com But a mortar bed does have advantages. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. kerdi membrane over osb With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. Caulk the gap. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. The mortar does . Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Installation. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. It fell right off? When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. Step 8: Allow to dry. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom It only takes a minute to sign up. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Fixing that is not that easy though. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. Hi David. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. Moisture resistant can cause similar problems, and there is absolutely no advantage to it. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. I imagine we could share some good stories. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. ;). Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Shower Install - Cement Board or Schluter? - RedFlagDeals.com Can you put KERDI over regular drywall? - remodelormove.com We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. Your email address will not be published. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. It's still applied to cement board. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. How did this project turn out? However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). Why unmodified thinset with kerdi? - qyvxl.dixiesewing.com We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? You peeled it off? vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Do You Need Uncoupling Membrane Over Concrete? - On Secret Hunt see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange.